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Turks in the Arab Travel Books II Presented by Assoc. Prof.
Dr. Serpil Bagci
Bagci: Hello to our spectators. Today we continue where we left last week. As you remembered, we talked about literature of books of travels generally by making quite wide summary last week. We talked both Arabic and Chinese travellers’ and geographer’s texts and the interesting parts of those texts. Today we continue to talk about Ibn-i Fadlan whom we learnt last week with our same guests and we also talk about other writers of books of travels. Mr. Sesen, we started to talk about Ibn-i Fadlan’ works last week. He was actually an important statesman who worked for Abbasids and he prepared this text as a report to palace. You said last week this text was unattainable for modern researcher but then Zeki Velidi Togan discovered it. Zeki Velidi Togan was a person who made known this text for both worlds of science and society. Where and how did he find this text? Sesen: Later Yakutul Haneve in 12th century and Kazvini in 13th century were benefited from Ibn-i Fadlan. They didn’t make any addition to those citations. Then book lost, and there was no more citation from it. Only Mustesics who read Kazvini’s book in 19th century were interested in those citations. As a result of this, Frahen, Russian scientist with German origin by collecting Yakut’s and Kazvini’s citations translated Ibn-i Fadlan text into both Russian and German in 1830s. This is the first research about Ibn-i Fadlan made by modern researcher. Then similar studies were done. I have to mention that there is no total text of this book. It was benefited from book with these citations made from later. When the communist revolution took place in Russia after World War I, Zeki Velidi Togan went to Central Asia. He went to Iran from there. He examined the books in Meshed Library in Iran. When he examined inscription, he found one copy of Ibn-i Fakih’s geography book. Next to this book, there was a version of Ibn-i Fadlan. Book emerged in that way. He took it and based on many citations from different books by translating into German and published it. Bagci: Did you remember the progress of your father relationship with Ibn-i Fadlan? Togan: It is impossible, because it happened before my birth. When my father went to Mesket, he left his country because of political struggles in Russia, but he felt his dependency to his country in terms of science and he sent a report about finding Ibn-i Fadlan version to Russian Science Academy. We see his relation to where he was trained, although political differences on the scene. Then studies of Meshed version were started in Russia as result of that. Following him, Mr. Sesen with his studies continued to study about Ibn-i Fadlan. Bagci: Is the oldest version of this text in Meshed? Sesen: There was only one copy like that, others were citations. Zeki Velidi Togan published his work in Leipzig in 1939. Kovalevski published same way in Russian and explanations in Moscow in same year. Later then that, book was translated into English, French and Persian. Arabic translation was made and published by Tami Deham in Sam. It was published as full text or translation in may countries. Bagci: I want to learn one thing more. What you talked about now are modern translations. After text was written up to Kazvini or later to 15th century, was it translated any languages like Persian, Ottoman Turkish Language or any other Turkish Language? Sesen: No, it wasn’t translated. Bagci: So, it wasn’t known. Sesen: It is related to logic. Before scientist especially religious person saw it unnecessary. Religious scientists didn’t pay much attention to such books. None of the books of Arabic geographers was totally translated into Ottoman Turkish Language. Some were translated but these translations included legends and superstitions. It was related to some reasons. One of them was that they didn’t pay much attention to the origin of Turks. Second reason was that people who were outsiders of Medrese interested in these works. Especially, writers, historians and statesmen interested in. Because of that, it wasn’t translated. Togan: There were some citations from Ibn-i Fadlan in Kazvini but there was no sign that it was benefited in Rashid al-din’s work. It seems that it was not under the control of them, today’s Iran region. In addition to that, they tried to represent the stories from Mongolia on the surface of Iran, they didn’t have a problem to represent the local histories of the region before them. When we see in Kazvini’s work, we also expect to see in Rashid al-Din Residettin and other writer like him didn’t interested in the history of Turks lived in Iran or Altin Ordu. There is a part about Uygurs in Juveyni. It is not a book of travel but a historical work. He wrote in 13th century. When Hayber Mirzadullat wrote East Turkistan in 16th, he said that Juveyni talked about Uyguristan but we didn’t know. In the time period, same region has been called differently or was forgotten. Bagci: If you want, we talk about the content of the text. You talked about where Ibn-i Fadlan travelled at last program. Do you talk about more parts in which he saw interesting things in that region? Sesen: For example, the first lineage that he went after Kharezm was Oguz. He met with important people of Oguz like commander, subasi, and Kurtegin. They told that king of Oguz (yabgu) was married with his stepmother. He saw this woman who went to grave of yabgu’s father and gave something. He narrated funeral ceremonies and how they made a grave based on that. Bagci: Do you explain more about that to us? Sesen: I read a part related to that to you: “ If some one dead among them, they dug a hole as big as house. Then they dressed the dead person and gave his arms. They gave a cup from tree in which there is a drink and they placed the cup full of drink. Then they buried the dead with his all-personal objects in sitting positions. Then they made a wall upon a dead. They made a dome from mud. Then they sacrificed whole animals of dead from 1 to 100 or 200. They ate the meat of those animals. They separated heads, tails and they hang up these animals on the trees near the grave. They said that dead person would go to paradise on those animals. If dead person was warrior who killed people during his life, they made a human face shapes from trees as many as number that was the number of killed by that person. They stationed these shapes on grave also. They called them as his servants, who would serve in paradise to him. Bagci: It is interesting that he killed at the same time he waited a service. Sesen: They believed the capture of soul by killing. Killed person was thought as a slave of the killer. From this point of view, being killed was bad. Yet to die in war place was the good death for old Turks. Who died in his bed was not interpreted as a hero, of course. Bagci: The relationship formed by society to death was interesting for Arabic intellectual. Do you have any information about funeral ceremony and the relationship formed with death and dead person in Arabs? Sesen: The period before Islam is not known very well. There were Christians, Jews, idolaters, hanif religion, Mechusi who worshipped fire and members of Zoroastrianism among old Arabs. Some of old Arabs accepted the existence of life after death, some didn’t. We didn’t know how they build graves. Graves in Petra, Jordan were build with the effects of Rome. Arabs in desert didn’t pay attention to graves. That was transferred same way into Islam. The graveyard was like a field in the period of prophet and first Muslims. Bagci: If you want, we should complete the part related Ibn-i Fadlan and his text, and start to another writer of book of travel; Cahiz. You translated and published Cahiz’s text about Caliphate’s army and virtues of Turks in 1967. Do you talk about Cahiz? Sesen: Cahiz lived in 780- 869 was a great Arabic writer, thinker and religious people. He had his own sect. One of the sects of Mutezile known as a rationalist in Islam is Cahize sect. Cahiz was born in Basra, down side of Iraq. At those days, Basra was the biggest cultural centre in Islam, might be there was no equal place in world. He was trained himself, he had wide cultural knowledge. He was also accepted as one of great figures in Arab literature even today. So many studies about him were done in both east and west. He wrote many works about religion, geography, literature and anthropology. His book named “virtues of Turks” was an anthropological work. This was the first book written about Turk’s characteristics. There were many groups in army around Baghdad in those days. There were Turks among these groups. He wanted to protect Turks by showing their virtues against who were against to Turks. He wrote that Turks were good soldiers, liked order and they were talented and at the same time, they were also modest people. When he talked about the characteristics of different nations, he said that Turks were the most developed nation in terms of military. Old Greeks in philosophy and science, Chinese in art, Persian in administration, Arabs in literature and Turks in military were good. When he talked about different virtues of Turks, he said interesting thing that one Turk by himself was a nation. Togan: I want to ask something based on my own observation. How did Cahiz take information about Turks? Sesen: He lived in Baghdad. He saw Turks in army and their families. Because of that, he was not alien to Turks. So most of his narratives were what he saw and some were to words of big people in Arabs like caliphs or commanders. Togan: I’m not sure but he made this resemblance about Turks. They were like Medina’s camel. Where they went, they looked through back to their countries with great sorrow but they continue to their long travel. Sesen: Turks firstly stated to accept Islam in the Abbasid period and to take responsibilities in the army. Same period for Umayyad started in the period of Muaviyah. Cahiz said that Turks had missed their countries and returned in the period of old caliphs, but now they didn’t returned because of that they saw caliph Muhtazim who respected to them. Cahiz said that to show Turks’ patriotism. To support his argument he used this Camel example. They looked to their countries with great sorrow like camel, if you let them go they run to their countries. Togan: Cahiz also described the Turks physically with wide shoulder, big head, thick beck of neck and long arms but short legs, they were short size. Sesen: I think that he didn’t say that their leg was short. But he compared Turks with people from East Turkistan in term of physiognomy. Like other Muslim geographers, Turks looked like both eastern people in east and western people in West. Muslim geographers generally told it. These travellers said that some were blond, some dark and some like Chinese people. When they learned much about Turks, they started to find much more similarities between Turks and Western people. Togan: As I remembered, Cahiz talked about the size of bodies. Long size is seen among people who lived on horse. I might add the part related the length of leg. What Cahiz described is not strange to us, we can fin people with large size body with long arm in streets as well. Sesen: Cahiz said that the time on horse was much longer than the time of sleep for Turks. He talked about the talent of Turks in shooting arrow and riding horse. Bagci: If shooting arrow and riding horse are art, that defines the artists. Actually Seyyid Lokman Asuri, Ottoman historian in 16th century used same kind of description while he was describing the Ottoman sultans. He described Magnificent Suleyman as a short size with wide shoulder, and long arms. All of them are seen as the physical requirements of riding horse. Togan: I think that Arabs also were riding horse for conquest. Is there any information about their physiognomy? Sesen: Masudi said that the shortest with smallest eyes among Turks was Oguz. Arabs also rode horse much, but it is understood that they were tall with the effect of climate. Bagci: Did Chinese describe us? Togan: I don’t remember any physiognomic description from what I have read. It might be the case, because of the frequency of relations. They narrated their fruits, plays and riding but not physiognomy, as I have known. Actually, physiognomy is not the same for all Chinese. To be Chinese is cultural identity. That is also effective. Why I have told this is that there are many different types among Turks. When Arabs looked through Turks in that period, they saw them from completely different from Arabs. Sesen: It is a fact that one nation is not totally blond. Every characteristic is found in one nation, but the majority is also important. Most of Turks are brown and dark. In addition to that, there is also more lightly or darker exist. Every nation is not pure in terms of physiognomy. Today, Europeans confused Africans with Turks. Bagci: One of the important issues in your research is newly published “ Recording of History and Geography in Muslim” in 1998. Of course, today we deal with its geography part more for today. When writing about geography and also related to books of travels, what did geographers in Middle Ages understand from geography? I think that he understood geography as a space that included people, animals and cultures. They interpreted geography wider than our understanding today, didn’t they? I think that they didn’t make separation between physical and cultural geography. Sesen: They understood physical, cultural and economic geography and cartography under the heading of geography. Cartography didn’t develop as much as geography literature in Islam world. Still they made good map compared with other maps in their period. We can give Idris’ map as an example that was actually good representation of reality in their period. Most of the geographers described cities and countries, these are called as “buldan” geography. Some of them paid attention to roads, these are called “mesalik" or "memalik” and some were interested in maps, these were called as “surat-ul arz”. The third group paid attention to physical geography. This map was not through the North Pole but the South Pole. Today’s map is toward the north. The geography of Islam world was more important for most of them. They explained countries surround the Islamic countries shortly. There was very little resource about regions far away from Islamic world. Only geographers like Idrisi realised that. Idrisi gave much information about Europe. Even he said that China was a continent by itself but there was little information about that at the beginning of Abul Fida's geography. He accepted that there was little information about Islands of Britain, India and Europe, and only Islamic countries were described. Togan: Well then how did they separate according to climates? Sesen: It was told that the idea of climate emerged from old India. According to this idea, countries were described from east to west and it was separated into seven regions from Equator to the North Pole. It is counted in seven climates, first from Equator to tropic, second after tropic and so on. Some said that it passed through Greece. Geographers told first one at the beginning from Far East to Far West. Of course not every geographers did same thing. Only geographers who told about climate followed that program. Except that, there were some that organised according to region. For example, Makdisi separated two regions, Arab countries and Persian countries that included non- Arabic countries. The word of climate was used instead of region, not as a climate. Bagci: Do you know how geographic books were written and who read them? How did geographers start to write and to whom? Of course, they provided road information for trader and port information for sailor, but except those groups were there any people who read these books without practical advantage? Sesen: In the period of Abbacies, there was a post organisation. Whole directions and the length of roads were recorded in this organisation. First geography book was produced from that. There was also geography of Batlamius. When Batlamius’ geography was translated into Arabic, both its effect and the effect of post organisation caused the emergence of geography. Traders, statesmen, sailors and people who were curious about world and cities both benefited from geography and used it for their practical purposes. Bagci: Among these geographical texts, Acayib-ul Mahlukat by Kazvini described the imaginary world. Some of them were illustrated. Are there any other books that included illustrations? Sesen: There were maps in geography books. Those pictures were mostly found in many books that were the pictures of both animals and plants. There was one book of Plinius written in the ancient Greek period. It was the geography book and it described some extraordinary things as well. Kazviniye was known as a Muslim Plinius. What he described was not a real thing but a fabricated one. Both geographical names and places were real, but there were also some fabrications. Kazvini wrote by mixing reality and fabrication. Bagci: In the Western literature, terrible imaginary creatures and hybrid creatures were narrated in the texts that were written since the eastern campaign of Alexander the Great. Such narratives make books more popular, I think. Togan: I wanted to ask whether they made a distinction between the reality and the imaginary like us. Because Sir Dennisan Rose translated the dictionary of birds with five languages from Chinese to English. Yet, when it was written there was no distinction between the reality and imaginary. There might be no such distinction in Kazvini also. Sesen: There were sea voyages of Kazvini like Sindibat and Acayib-ul Arz. Some of the strange things in the world were imagined and some even were fabricated animals. Several books were written about them. Kazvini wrote by using them and it is also added that real geography books were not translated into Ottoman Turkish in the Ottoman period, but Kazvini’s book was translated with even more fabrications. Some people and the members of Medrese knew geography only from Kazvini’s book. Yet they didn’t know Ibn-i Havkali, Makdisi and Idris. Because of that, two types of geography were developed in the Ottoman society, first type is what we have talked about and the second one is the real geography. Real one under the Western influence started in the 15th century. The influence of the East can be observed much in works of Sipahipasazade and Katip Celebi. When Katip Celebi started to write ‘Cihannuma’, he wanted to know the Western literature for that there was no information about west like British Islands in eastern literature. When he learnt the Western literature, he completed ‘Cihannuma’. Yet the real geography similar to the Western one or the first Islamic geography became dominant in the 19th century in Ottoman society. Bagci: This tendency is related with the curiosity about other countries and other worlds and other cultures. Togan: In addition to that, there were some people who didn’t write geography books like Turks, although they travelled too much. This tendency was also related how that information was used. There was no tradition of geography in places where oral tradition was dominant form of culture, but it had priority in settled cultures like Chinese, Persian and Arab. Bagci: Do you have any ongoing projects about texts of old geographers or historians? Sesen: Except what we have talked, I edited a book covering texts from more than thirty books under the name of “Turks and Turkish Countries according to Islamic Geographers”. Turkish Cultural Research Institute published it. Now History Institute will publish it with new additions. In addition to that, I am planning to publish books of Cahiz and Ibn-i Fadlan with whole texts, if I find time. Bagci: Perhaps, you illustrate these books with some pictures and maps. Visual materials make them richer. Sesen: I also think about it. pc12.soc.metu.edu.tr (12 November 2000, Ankara) |